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Post by Lavender on Sept 21, 2010 12:13:10 GMT
Interestingly enough, both foals bred out of my mare had small umbilical hernias, both have cleared up fine on their own, but the colt will be gelded, the filly never bred from and the mare PTS for producing the fault (said with tongue very firmly in cheek, before anyone takes me seriously!!!)
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Post by tweeds on Sept 21, 2010 12:49:43 GMT
Thats taking it to a silly level,pts, we are speaking of breed classes, horses and youngstock which pave the way for the future of a breed, in this case competition horses . So I'll put it another way, would you use a stallion which had produced hernias or breed from a stallion which had to be operated on in order to correct it ?
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Post by eloomineight on Sept 21, 2010 12:58:40 GMT
Tweeds - is a hurnia a weakness of the lining of the wall, which then posses more risk of colicing. I would like to undersatnd more and I know you may not be a vet. But you have knowledge of horses and this type of issue.
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Post by Lavender on Sept 21, 2010 13:03:04 GMT
Thats taking it to a silly level,pts, we are speaking of breed classes, horses and youngstock which pave the way for the future of a breed, in this case competition horses . So I'll put it another way, would you use a stallion which had produced hernias or breed from a stallion which had to be operated on in order to correct it ? As I said, it was said with tongue in cheek and a very 'me' way of putting a point across (the point being both the foals out the same mare had been born with hernias, hence it looks to me that it is possibly hereditory ) But to answer your question, if the stallion suited my mare and had been proved to have produced good foals, then yes, I may consider it.
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weechief
Full Member
'ello all
Posts: 225
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Post by weechief on Sept 21, 2010 13:30:01 GMT
would you use a stallion which had produced hernias or breed from a stallion which had to be operated on in order to correct it ? Maybe. As you know there are a whole load of things to be considered (or at least should be) when deciding what to breed with what. It's not the greatest fault in my mind, so not a deal breaker for me.
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Post by Lavender on Sept 21, 2010 14:02:47 GMT
Thats taking it to a silly level,pts, we are speaking of breed classes, horses and youngstock which pave the way for the future of a breed, in this case competition horses . So I'll put it another way, would you use a stallion which had produced hernias or breed from a stallion which had to be operated on in order to correct it ? As I said, it was said with tongue in cheek and a very 'me' way of putting a point across (the point being both the foals out the same mare had been born with hernias, hence it looks to me that it is possibly hereditory ) But to answer your question, if the stallion suited my mare and had been proved to have produced good foals, then yes, I may consider it. And thinking about it further! That is a complete hypothetical question anyway, how many stallion owners would admit that to potential clients of this problem! So I would presume I had already used the stallion, then realised the fault, but if the resultant offspring was a stonking foal, I would not hessitate in using that stallion again that produces a fault that, I believe, in most cases is relatively easy to fix. Hope that makes sense!! No doubt you will come up with a reply that may get me thinking about it again, but I'm no expert on this subject and I am finding it interesting and educational ETA - we all seem to have entered into the debate rather well and have answered your questions put to us Tweed, but please tell us, who of all the horses in that Championship, would you have put your money on
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Post by tweeds on Sept 21, 2010 14:37:20 GMT
Its a bit unfair for me to answer this as I have been researching some of the sports horses forward, and being a bit of a bloodline boff, know exactly what I would have taken home , But!! on the day I didnt study in any depth the classes which I would have done had I been judging or specifically there to pay attention - I think I went for a meal while some were being judged.
In a sale if all the horses forwarded that day were auctioned off by catalogue with their show results standing and breeding shown, I doubt very much the colt would have topped the sale nor would the 3 yr old , but I may be wrong, remember this is my opinion .Saying that I would never breed from a mare which produced faults or use a stallion that had, its a backwards step, breeding is about improvement not taking steps back, there are enough indiscriminate foals born in this country without breeding to satisfy an owners yearning for a baby horse.
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Post by Lavender on Sept 21, 2010 15:09:56 GMT
Saying that I would never breed from a mare which produced faults or use a stallion that had, its a backwards step, breeding is about improvement not taking steps back, there are enough indiscriminate foals born in this country without breeding to satisfy an owners yearning for a baby horse. I'm going to be awfy hypocritical here and agree with you!! If you knew my approach to breeding what I have, you would be appalled But I always maintain it is a lottery anyway!
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Post by tweeds on Sept 21, 2010 17:02:39 GMT
May be a lottery but easier if you stack the odds in your favour rather than against you. Its like anything else you only get what you pay for, 'one offs', from indiscriminate matings rarely pass on anything of real worth or value to future generations .
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Post by Kath the Magic Dragon on Sept 21, 2010 17:08:51 GMT
Must say i couldnt agree more with that point - i know a lot of people who breed to keep 'valuable' blood lines, even if the mare/stallion has some less than desireable traits. To me, you really need to breed quality to quality, and hope for the best!
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Post by tweeds on Sept 21, 2010 17:26:18 GMT
Sometimes a little forgiveness goes a long way, as long as you are on the right lines and are prepared to wait for the next generation after the one you breed, its all about improvement plus a lot of time and patience.
Then again a well produced animal of inferior quality can beat in the showring one which is better in many ways but has not been produced to the same level .
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Post by olivertwist on Sept 22, 2010 14:11:34 GMT
In a sale if all the horses forwarded that day were auctioned off by catalogue with their show results standing and breeding shown, I doubt very much the colt would have topped the sale nor would the 3 yr old , but I may be wrong, remember this is my opinion . I went to this show to be judged by the two judges that were listed on the entry form not by you. I do hope that you are you are not are referring to my horse which was one of the 3 year olds, which has won numerous championships but I'm sure you know better than all the other judges!. As far as I am aware is a forum for people to express their opinions not upset & slate other peoples horses. This has become down right nasty.
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Post by tweeds on Sept 22, 2010 18:25:42 GMT
If I remember rightly, and I only half glanced at the 3 yr olds, were there two or three forward, yours must have been the strong bay - am I right? I would be interested to know how he/she? was bred? and no I'm slating no one everyone adores their own horses, why not? so olly its not nasty mearly observations, so dont take it that way.
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Post by pinkpony on Sept 22, 2010 18:50:38 GMT
Oliver Twist doesnt come on that often so Im sure she wont mind me answering your question. He is the liver chestnut. He is by the hanovarian is it Partins Resputin, (something like that anyway!), and out a partbred welsh mare so is amazingly 25% welsh D which I dont think you would ever guess looking at him.
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Post by tweeds on Sept 22, 2010 19:17:09 GMT
so it wasnt the bay? are we talking sports horses? or was I looking at a totally different horse?
I remember the strong chestnut well grown yearling winner with what looked like a huge scar , I was told later it was there when she was born , it was kinda wierd and was in the shape of a butterfly so a sort of birthmark , great identification though, no - one could pinch her, I wonder how she was bred? shame there was no catalogue of breeding, perhaps next time eh?
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