jimbo
Junior Member
Posts: 23
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Post by jimbo on Jun 15, 2011 13:41:38 GMT
Every now and again it's good to stir up a little controversy.
As I have said before I am fairly new to showing and whilst we as a family have shown our young Fell and coloured Gypsy Cob in the past the vast majority of our outings now are showing our sporthorse youngstock. I do of course spend a fair amount of time watching other classes, particularly in-hand youngstock.
I cast an eye over the animals being shown and have asked myself the question "are these horses and ponies athletes and if not is there an actual need for them to be athletes?"
Why do I ask the question? Well it has struck me that there is a tendency for show horses to be what might, kindly, be described as rotund. Less kindly some might be described as fat/obese.
Now, I have a background in sports science and fitness and I know that athleticism and fitness are not the same thing and that fat levels give no indication of fitness levels. However it is generally accepted that a horse/pony carrying too much weight in the form of fat is not healthy. Yet regularly there are animals with lovely round stallion-like necks, beautiful peach bottoms, flat backs with a little dip along their backline and super well padded shoulders on the show circuit.
So:
1. Is it my imagination that show horses and ponies tend to be overweight? If not
2. Is this because animals in this condition are more estetically pleasing with a better 'look'?
3. Are judges doing a disservice to our animals by placing overweight horses?
4. Is it time to introduce Body Condition Scoring as part of the judging and any horse/pony with a BCS score higher than six or seven be disqualified?
In my opinion all horses and ponies are athletes, bearing in mind what we ask them to do, and as such their fat levels are extremely important. If people are watching show classes and see overweight animals as the norm, they will go home to try and give their own horses the same 'look' and hence a nation of fatties.
Comments please.
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Post by bigbutt on Jun 15, 2011 15:07:07 GMT
I absolutly HATE to see animals in "Show" condition. To me an animal in the show ring should be marked on how it is put together and how it can move. If its overweight there is no way it can move to the best of its ability, end of story!
Animals should be fit not fat.
These people who feed up their animals for the ring - would they do the same to their child?
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Post by Bedrockshetlands on Jun 15, 2011 15:59:40 GMT
I'm not sure whether or not you could consider the show horse an athlete or not. They have to be fit for the job they do but showing itself is not a test of athletic ability so I'm not sure I would consider them athletes. Most horses and ponies on the ridden circuit are very fit, many participate in other disciplines, most are capable of a days hunting at least IMO.
Attitudes are changing on the whole towards condition, very fat animals are generally penalised since its condition is an immediate welfare concern. Show condition does not equate to being fat, a well conditioned show horse will be toned and have and even covering. A leaner horse is not necessarily a fitter one.
Of course condition must be considered in the ring but isn't the main consideration, excessively fat or thin animals should be heavily penalised but type/conformation/movement etc should always be considered first as that is of course the objective of showing, otherwise it turns into a condition and turnout class.
No condition scoring shouldn't be used in the ring, it is too general. There is much more to consider when judging a horses condition, the main one being the type of animal you are judging, some types naturally have the bum gutter and large necks. Most of my foals were born with a bum gutter! To lose it you would need to half emaciate them. Most judges have the knowledge and experience to differentiate.
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Post by puddledub on Jun 15, 2011 21:05:59 GMT
very well put BRS  |
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Post by penllys on Jun 16, 2011 9:57:57 GMT
Totally agree too!!
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Post by sparkler on Jun 16, 2011 10:13:14 GMT
Well I have pondered over this overnight to decide what to say and how to say it, however BRS has put it beautifully.  and also saved me brain ache trying to put across what I mean  |
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Post by boo on Jun 16, 2011 21:12:47 GMT
BRs that was well put it annoys me when people say show horses are not fit - they need to be to do a ridden class at the bigger shows they go on for a good while and an unfit horse would struggle
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cobby
Full Member
Posts: 119
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Post by cobby on Jun 22, 2011 19:18:57 GMT
I would say they are, they need to be in good condition and fit to cope with doing a class at a show and performing well. You dont want them fat etc or they would not go as well in the classes.
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bungle
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by bungle on Jun 22, 2011 20:57:27 GMT
should confirmation, schooling and presence not superceed weight? i have a big built mare who i can only compete spring and winter as we have decided she deserves a tummy full of grass and time to be a horse more than some ribbons in the summer.
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Post by eloomineight on Jul 17, 2011 23:35:20 GMT
Sorry to add to this one but I was at a show early in the year with young horses who had wintered out. They had what I thought was a good cover, shiny coats, full of energy but I was put down the line as the judge liked the fatter animal. It has taken me a lot of feed to put on the condition which is required to get up the line up at shows. The judge congratulated me for the way I was producing my animals, saying they will last longer than alot of ones who where produced to show condition. So what do they want? Horse reared naturally or one over fed as young horses just to win tickets in the ring? I am amased how yearlings end up looking like fully grown horses, with increadible top line. I am pleased my horses are not only going to show but do other jobs, like jumping or dressage or even eventing.
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Post by boo on Jul 18, 2011 7:43:38 GMT
Sorry to add to this one but I was at a show early in the year with young horses who had wintered out. They had what I thought was a good cover, shiny coats, full of energy but I was put down the line as the judge liked the fatter animal. It has taken me a lot of feed to put on the condition which is required to get up the line up at shows. The judge congratulated me for the way I was producing my animals, saying they will last longer than alot of ones who where produced to show condition. So what do they want? Horse reared naturally or one over fed as young horses just to win tickets in the ring? I am amased how yearlings end up looking like fully grown horses, with increadible top line. I am pleased my horses are not only going to show but do other jobs, like jumping or dressage or even eventing. this is why i have choosen not to show my 2yo much this year, i have just taken her to a couple local smaller shows to get her out and about, i refuse to pump her full of feed i want a horse to last and have a ridden career not for in hand showing, it really bugs me when judges say a youngster is too imature or needs more top line etc - they are youngsters let them be youngsters sorry for the rant just bugs me silly, i was told when fred was shown as a baby that he would have been higher up the line if he had more top line i just ignored them but didnt see the point with enya in spending money entering shows to be told the same so keeping her at home doubt i will do much next year either as 3yo they seem to want even more on them - arrrrrr my monday moan over! |
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Post by sparkler on Jul 18, 2011 8:38:37 GMT
I have never been able to get my head round the " put more condition on it" especially for youngsters, you are going to show the animal not eat it!!! Toned muscle please, not fat. Boo is such a shame that you arent going to show your lovely filly because of this issue, that is really sad.  I also think that nowadays there are many people who think their horses are working harder than they actually are and overfeed due to this - they think their horse is in medium/hard work when actually its only doing light work - I know it seems like a generalisation but its not meant to be but having watched owners on a very large livery yard it does happen.  |
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Post by nag777 on Jul 18, 2011 9:13:28 GMT
don't get me started on the "condition on youngsters" issue - I am still seeing far too many "over topped" yearlings and 2 year olds Unfortunately, until those judging actually start penalising some people will continue to have their babies looking like prize bulls just to win that nice red rosette... |
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Post by gemzy on Jul 18, 2011 12:04:29 GMT
I have a traditional coloured cob and its sad to say that the fatter cobs seem to do much better in the ring than the fitter cobs. My boy got overweight a couple of months ago and I worked very hard to get it all off and have him fit again however now I seem to be getting penalised as he does not look 'cobby' enough. Its a tough old world in show ring!
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Post by Flyingbuck on Jul 18, 2011 12:46:52 GMT
don't get me started on the "condition on youngsters" issue - I am still seeing far too many "over topped" yearlings and 2 year olds Unfortunately, until those judging actually start penalising some people will continue to have their babies looking like prize bulls just to win that nice red rosette... Wish there was a "like" button here - couldn't agree more nag |
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and also saved me brain ache trying to put across what I mean 
